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First Amendment Webinar: #UNO1ForAll - Shared screen with speaker view
Hamza Haqqi
24:48
Hello! Looking forward to todays discussion.
Chip Stewart
44:37
Example: I left Facebook a couple of years ago, and then during the pandemic, many of my kids’ activities were live-streamed on Facebook. I had to watch swim meets and basketball games through my wife’s account.
Christopher Terry
45:25
How would you actually reform Section 230 and have it be Constitutional?
Chip Stewart
46:30
That’s one problem, Chris — a lot of the goals behind reform efforts (must-carry disfavored political speech, for example) have huge 1A problems. Those couldn’t survive under modern 1A jurisprudence.
Christopher Terry
47:18
There is already a test case, Woodhull. Any reform effort should wait for a decision in that case.
Chip Stewart
47:23
It’s why the state “social media censorship” bills out of Texas and Florida aren’t plausible solutions
Christopher Terry
48:04
But the most logical way to reform 230 is to repeal it, and then overturn Reno…bringing the internet into line with the model applied to broadcasters.
Christopher Terry
48:16
That’s a bad choice by the way.
Chip Stewart
48:29
Agreed - that’s a bad option
Christopher Terry
49:01
Then it can’t be done and be Constitutional. At least for now.
Tori Ekstrand
50:31
It’s so sticky Chris. The panel Jasmine was on last night — some of the best minds on this — struggle with the solutions. I do think it’s a multi-prong approach. Law alone will not crack this nut.
Jasmine McNealy
52:31
Unpublishing
Tori Ekstrand
53:44
My student is writing her dissertation on unpublishing: https://rjionline.org/best-practices/unpublishing-may-be-a-catchy-term-but-does-it-accurately-encompass-the-issue/
Chip Stewart
54:23
Agreed, Tori. This isn’t a problem that law (especially U.S. law) can’t handle. As long as companies have huge financial incentives to host and spread misinfo/disinfo, they will. What ways, outside the law, can those incentives be shifted?
Chip Stewart
54:38
* can handle, I meant to say
Tori Ekstrand
56:50
I think the interesting part is that the public really wants change so that’s a starting point. I wonder about public boards working on platform mediation….Canada has local boards that help to mediate online conflicts. I wonder about govt subsidizing this. Something like news councils of the 1970s. I do think we need emphasis on reasonable content moderation.
Anthony Fargo
56:57
Adam and Chip, what do you think of the shield law bill currently pending in the House and Senate?
Adam Goldman
57:13
I am conflicted about it.
Adam Goldman
58:04
Should reporters have special privileges while other citizens don’t?
Tori Ekstrand
01:01:58
Well said Chip
Christopher Terry
01:02:13
https://docs.legis.wisconsin.gov/misc/lc/hearing_testimony_and_materials/2021/ab411/ab0411_2021_08_11.pdf
Christopher Terry
01:02:29
Wisconsin’s CRT Ban, passed the State House Yesterday
Tori Ekstrand
01:02:56
^^We’re tracking these at UNC and watching the bills, the EOs, etc.
Tori Ekstrand
01:03:50
I used to use school board meetings as the ultimate safety valve sample. #sad
Tori Ekstrand
01:03:53
*example
Chip Stewart
01:04:15
Jan. 6 was a real test for the “safety valve” and I still haven’t resolved how to teach that. We’re seeing this in some of the violent anti-vaccine movements right now, too.
Tori Ekstrand
01:04:51
Exactly…the marketplace makes us wait on the correction. The problem is that violence can occur in the interim.
Christopher Terry
01:04:55
Chip: Action vs Speech? That’s my thinking on it.
Chip Stewart
01:07:10
The mixed speech/action questions are the most difficult
Christopher Terry
01:07:30
That’s true.
Tori Ekstrand
01:08:25
Well said Jasmine.
Chip Stewart
01:08:31
I think of the 5th circuit case where a police officer sued a BLM protest organizer because someone hit him with a brick. Lower courts an the first 5th circuit panel allowed the lawsuit against the protest organizer (purely speech!) before the full 5th circuit said the speech was protected by 1A. Sue the brick thrower, not the protest organizer.
Eric Robinson
01:11:28
Lots of small-d democratic norms are under attack these days, speech norms among them.
Tori Ekstrand
01:13:04
Indeed Eric.
Tori Ekstrand
01:13:52
We can teach all the law we want but if the public is not behind the rule of law the rule of law loses power. This is what is scary for those of us who study the 1A ….
Chip Stewart
01:15:21
The BLM/McKesson case is still ongoing after the Supreme Court vacated the 5th Circuit ruling: https://www.ca5.uscourts.gov/opinions/pub/17/17-30864-CV3.pdf
Chip Stewart
01:18:23
Ban Finsta, obviously (jk)
Chip Stewart
01:20:04
ICYMI, a senator asked Facebook today if they would “end Finsta” https://www.ctpost.com/news/article/Facebook-chief-explains-Finsta-to-Blumenthal-16499890.php
Tori Ekstrand
01:23:50
And we’re watching it LIVE.
Tori Ekstrand
01:24:48
Agreed Jasmine.
Adam Goldman
01:25:02
Great point Jasmine
Tori Ekstrand
01:26:15
I’m thinking more and more about these people…and whether they just simply need to go to jail or what needs to happen with them….whether to care.
Chip Stewart
01:26:15
To Adam’s point, I thought a key moment was when a Congress candidate from Montana assaulted a journalist the day before the election, still got elected, suffered no real consequences, and then was praised by the president and welcomed into the GOP caucus with open arms in 2017
Chip Stewart
01:26:42
The message was sent - beating journalists is OK. That normalized something that should never have been normalized.
Tori Ekstrand
01:26:55
Yes, Chip
Jessica Hagins
01:29:07
Could online local papers be a training ground?
Chip Stewart
01:30:29
Look at the stories that get the most traffic on Facebook. Every day it’s not actual news orgs; it’s Daily Wire and Breitbart types. They dominate the space in the void left when people abandoned journalism institutions
Chip Stewart
01:30:32
https://www.npr.org/2021/07/19/1013793067/outrage-as-a-business-model-how-ben-shapiro-is-using-facebook-to-build-an-empire
Chip Stewart
01:35:49
Worth remembering that Gawker/Bollea was a Peter Thiel joint
Tori Ekstrand
01:45:29
I'm back....just don't have a camera!
Tori Ekstrand
01:49:06
Yes!
Tori Ekstrand
01:49:31
The exhaustion is real.
Tori Ekstrand
01:52:52
I think I struggle with to what extent to we continue to talk to people engaging in anti-democratic practices, antithetical to the 1A, to what extent are these folks punished or addressed...are these folks reachable? Or do we simply move on and away from them? This is the struggle we're dealing with on my southern campus right now. It's all challenging but necessary to think about.
Chip Stewart
01:53:55
That’s a great point, Tori, and a real challenge.
Chip Stewart
01:54:36
I don’t think journalists have to be neutral about our commitment to truth, nor our opposition to fascists or anti-democracy forces
Tori Ekstrand
01:55:03
agreed Chip.
Angela Gahan
01:55:12
Would you post the name of those two books again, thank you!
Chip Stewart
01:56:13
Same here: Dallas Morning News, Texas Tribune, The Athletic. Pay for good journalism!
Crystal Kwaw
01:56:27
Thank you so much!!
Tori Ekstrand
01:56:30
Thank you all!
Adam Goldman
01:56:41
Thank you!
Jasmine McNealy
01:56:46
Thank you!
Pamela Bennett
01:56:48
Thank you. Great information.
Chip Stewart
01:56:49
Thanks, all. Bravo, Jeremy!
Amandanda Goodrich
01:56:53
Thank you very much!
Victoria Higgins
01:57:00
Thank you!